Blocking does not work properly (at least on MSN)

[pi]

If subject A blocks subject B, B sees A offline (and this is OK).

But...
1- If A is using Pidgin and B is using Pidgin, and B sends a message to A, the message is sent without errors This procedure works if user B selects NOT to make a buddy pounce when warned that the user is not online (and chooses to send the message anyway).
2- If A is using Microsoft MSN and B is using Pidgin, and B sends a message to A, the message is NOT sent with the error: "User is not online"

What I would expect is the 2nd behaviour and not the first! In that way one has the chance to know for sure if someone is really offline (sending error) or has just been blocked (no sending error).

Thanks,
Pietro

[pi]

Replying to seanegan:

Excuse me, but in ticket #3262, salinasv said: ""block" in MSN network means that the other person can't see if you are online, is the same as "appear offline" but this doesn't affect SwitchBoard?. If he send you a "offline message" when you online, he will open a SB seassion and he can talk with you, the same if you send a message when he is online on your buddy list.", and that definition was implicitly confirmed by you.

But if that is the right definition of blocking in MSN, why the official MSN Client behaves differently, as I reported in this ticket? Is the official MSN Client wrong?
Could you explain me that?

Thanks,
Pietro

[ritoumb]

I am not sure that I understand exactly the case. I tried again to talk to someone who uses Windows Messenger and had me blocked. He got my messages as off-line messages. I am not sure about the time that he got them, so I can't tell for sure if it's the same thing, so I will try it again.

See you

[salinasv]

Think about this. Block is only about "I don't like to foo can see if I'm online or not" works only on the status area. The IM works isolated from the status, If you send a message to some guy that is online you open a SB connection and send the message, if it's offline you open a Offline Message Connection and send the message.

So, as I understand how this works. you can't prevent foo from talking to you (of course you always can don't replay the message).

The "user is not online" error I can imagine that the official client when receiving the IM check if the source are blocked and report a error. I don't really know this, I do not use the official client and do not send IM to offline (potentially blocked me) contacts. Maybe I should try this one.

[pi]

Replying to salinasv:

Think about this. Block is only about "I don't like to foo can see if I'm online or not" works only on the status area. The IM works isolated from the status, If you send a message to some guy that is online you open a SB connection and send the message, if it's offline you open a Offline Message Connection and send the message. So, as I understand how this works. you can't prevent foo from talking to you (of course you always can don't replay the message). The "user is not online" error I can imagine that the official client when receiving the IM check if the source are blocked and report a error. I don't really know this, I do not use the official client and do not send IM to offline (potentially blocked me) contacts. Maybe I should try this one.

I suggest you to have a go on it. Pidgin against MSN Official Client: they behaves differently, as I reported. (Pidgin vs. Windows Live Messenger, to be precise).
See you,
Pietro

[TehWan]

Even if Pidgin does not behave exactly like the official client, Pidgin is NOT the official client, so it may behave differently. That said, I suggest "block" should block the contact, as in, totally blocked. Some guy made a program that just keeps on spamming me with offline messages, and even though I blocked him, he is not really blocked, it is only an illusion. (and reporting the msn admins did nothing at all, they can't do anything about it, since i'm not using the official client)

to block: "To stop or impede the passage of or movement through; obstruct" ~answers.com

So make two different functions ("block status", "block messages") or just make one that does both ("block"). That way, the confusion will be lifted and I will be able to finally use Pidgin again on that MSN account without getting spammed to death.

~ Teh Wan ~

[salinasv]

Replying to TehWan:

Even if Pidgin does not behave exactly like the official client, Pidgin is NOT the official client, so it may behave differently. That said, I suggest "block" should block the contact, as in, totally blocked. Some guy made a program that just keeps on spamming me with offline messages, and even though I blocked him, he is not really blocked, it is only an illusion. (and reporting the msn admins did nothing at all, they can't do anything about it, since i'm not using the official client) to block: "To stop or impede the passage of or movement through; obstruct" ~answers.com So make two different functions ("block status", "block messages") or just make one that does both ("block"). That way, the confusion will be lifted and I will be able to finally use Pidgin again on that MSN account without getting spammed to death.

I guess this one (block messages) can be done with a plugin. You only need a "block message" list in the prefs or something like that and every time a new conv opens you check against that list and allow or stop the process of openning the new tab.

I don't really know if it's supported by the msnp.

~ Teh Wan ~

[pi]

Replying to TehWan:

Even if Pidgin does not behave exactly like the official client, Pidgin is NOT the official client, so it may behave differently. That said, I suggest "block" should block the contact, as in, totally blocked. Some guy made a program that just keeps on spamming me with offline messages, and even though I blocked him, he is not really blocked, it is only an illusion. (and reporting the msn admins did nothing at all, they can't do anything about it, since i'm not using the official client) to block: "To stop or impede the passage of or movement through; obstruct" ~answers.com So make two different functions ("block status", "block messages") or just make one that does both ("block"). That way, the confusion will be lifted and I will be able to finally use Pidgin again on that MSN account without getting spammed to death. ~ Teh Wan ~

Pidgin is not the official client, right... but Pidgin's goal for MSN protocol, I think (and I hope), is to be a replacement of all the functions and (desiderable) behaviours of official MSN client. Proper blocking (full blocking, status and messages) should be one of these.

Proper blocking cannot be only a status blocking because, *as I explained*, one has the chance to determine if one is online or not by sending a message. Please, re-read the ticket... could you still believe that status-only blocking could be intended as proper blocking?

Replying to salinasv:

I don't really know if it's supported by the msnp.

Proper blocking not supported by MSNProtocol? Excuse me, did you *try* the MSN Official Client against Pidgin like I suggested you one month ago, or not? I did. That's the reason why I filed this ticket.
Pietro

[TehWan]

Replying to Pietro:

Proper blocking cannot be only a status blocking because, *as I explained*, one has the chance to determine if one is online or not by sending a message. Please, re-read the ticket... could you still believe that status-only blocking could be intended as proper blocking?

Please, re-read my post... I do not believe that status-only blocking could be intended as proper blocking. I remember back with Windows Messenger, you had no way to know if someone blocked you or is simply offline, which was incredible. Nowadays, you can know when people are blocking you or not? What is that, a security flaw? But we're not here to discuss the MSN Protocol. Actually, there should be a way to block offline messages, which is what we receive when we block people.

Anyways, in reply to salinasv, I guess it could, thanks.

~ Teh Wan ~

[ins3]

I also would like Pidgin to show me as offline and hide messages from people that I've blocked.