Opened 10 years ago

Closed 4 months ago

#2939 closed defect (out of date)

Blocking does not work properly (at least on MSN)

Reported by: pi Owned by: khc
Milestone: Component: MSN
Version: 2.1.1 Keywords: blocking privacy msn
Cc:

Description

If subject A blocks subject B, B sees A offline (and this is OK).

But...
1- If A is using Pidgin and B is using Pidgin, and B sends a message to A, the message is sent without errors This procedure works if user B selects NOT to make a buddy pounce when warned that the user is not online (and chooses to send the message anyway).
2- If A is using Microsoft MSN and B is using Pidgin, and B sends a message to A, the message is NOT sent with the error: "User is not online"

What I would expect is the 2nd behaviour and not the first! In that way one has the chance to know for sure if someone is really offline (sending error) or has just been blocked (no sending error).

Thanks,
Pietro

Change History (17)

comment:1 follow-up: Changed 10 years ago by seanegan

  • Component changed from libpurple to MSN
  • Owner set to khc

comment:2 in reply to: ↑ 1 Changed 10 years ago by pi

Replying to seanegan:

Excuse me, but in ticket #3262, salinasv said: ""block" in MSN network means that the other person can't see if you are online, is the same as "appear offline" but this doesn't affect SwitchBoard?. If he send you a "offline message" when you online, he will open a SB seassion and he can talk with you, the same if you send a message when he is online on your buddy list.", and that definition was implicitly confirmed by you.

But if that is the right definition of blocking in MSN, why the official MSN Client behaves differently, as I reported in this ticket? Is the official MSN Client wrong?
Could you explain me that?

Thanks,
Pietro

comment:3 Changed 10 years ago by ritoumb

I am not sure that I understand exactly the case. I tried again to talk to someone who uses Windows Messenger and had me blocked. He got my messages as off-line messages. I am not sure about the time that he got them, so I can't tell for sure if it's the same thing, so I will try it again.

See you

comment:4 follow-up: Changed 10 years ago by salinasv

Think about this. Block is only about "I don't like to foo can see if I'm online or not" works only on the status area. The IM works isolated from the status, If you send a message to some guy that is online you open a SB connection and send the message, if it's offline you open a Offline Message Connection and send the message.

So, as I understand how this works. you can't prevent foo from talking to you (of course you always can don't replay the message).

The "user is not online" error I can imagine that the official client when receiving the IM check if the source are blocked and report a error. I don't really know this, I do not use the official client and do not send IM to offline (potentially blocked me) contacts. Maybe I should try this one.

comment:5 in reply to: ↑ 4 Changed 10 years ago by pi

Replying to salinasv:

Think about this. Block is only about "I don't like to foo can see if I'm online or not" works only on the status area. The IM works isolated from the status, If you send a message to some guy that is online you open a SB connection and send the message, if it's offline you open a Offline Message Connection and send the message.

So, as I understand how this works. you can't prevent foo from talking to you (of course you always can don't replay the message).

The "user is not online" error I can imagine that the official client when receiving the IM check if the source are blocked and report a error. I don't really know this, I do not use the official client and do not send IM to offline (potentially blocked me) contacts. Maybe I should try this one.

I suggest you to have a go on it. Pidgin against MSN Official Client: they behaves differently, as I reported. (Pidgin vs. Windows Live Messenger, to be precise).
See you,
Pietro

comment:6 follow-ups: Changed 10 years ago by TehWan

Even if Pidgin does not behave exactly like the official client, Pidgin is NOT the official client, so it may behave differently. That said, I suggest "block" should block the contact, as in, totally blocked. Some guy made a program that just keeps on spamming me with offline messages, and even though I blocked him, he is not really blocked, it is only an illusion. (and reporting the msn admins did nothing at all, they can't do anything about it, since i'm not using the official client)

to block: "To stop or impede the passage of or movement through; obstruct" ~answers.com

So make two different functions ("block status", "block messages") or just make one that does both ("block"). That way, the confusion will be lifted and I will be able to finally use Pidgin again on that MSN account without getting spammed to death.

~ Teh Wan ~

comment:7 in reply to: ↑ 6 Changed 10 years ago by salinasv

Replying to TehWan:

Even if Pidgin does not behave exactly like the official client, Pidgin is NOT the official client, so it may behave differently. That said, I suggest "block" should block the contact, as in, totally blocked. Some guy made a program that just keeps on spamming me with offline messages, and even though I blocked him, he is not really blocked, it is only an illusion. (and reporting the msn admins did nothing at all, they can't do anything about it, since i'm not using the official client)

to block: "To stop or impede the passage of or movement through; obstruct" ~answers.com

So make two different functions ("block status", "block messages") or just make one that does both ("block"). That way, the confusion will be lifted and I will be able to finally use Pidgin again on that MSN account without getting spammed to death.

I guess this one (block messages) can be done with a plugin. You only need a "block message" list in the prefs or something like that and every time a new conv opens you check against that list and allow or stop the process of openning the new tab.

I don't really know if it's supported by the msnp.

~ Teh Wan ~

comment:8 in reply to: ↑ 6 ; follow-up: Changed 10 years ago by pi

Replying to TehWan:

Even if Pidgin does not behave exactly like the official client, Pidgin is NOT the official client, so it may behave differently. That said, I suggest "block" should block the contact, as in, totally blocked. Some guy made a program that just keeps on spamming me with offline messages, and even though I blocked him, he is not really blocked, it is only an illusion. (and reporting the msn admins did nothing at all, they can't do anything about it, since i'm not using the official client)

to block: "To stop or impede the passage of or movement through; obstruct" ~answers.com

So make two different functions ("block status", "block messages") or just make one that does both ("block"). That way, the confusion will be lifted and I will be able to finally use Pidgin again on that MSN account without getting spammed to death.

~ Teh Wan ~

Pidgin is not the official client, right... but Pidgin's goal for MSN protocol, I think (and I hope), is to be a replacement of all the functions and (desiderable) behaviours of official MSN client. Proper blocking (full blocking, status and messages) should be one of these.

Proper blocking cannot be only a status blocking because, *as I explained*, one has the chance to determine if one is online or not by sending a message. Please, re-read the ticket... could you still believe that status-only blocking could be intended as proper blocking?

Replying to salinasv:

I don't really know if it's supported by the msnp.

Proper blocking not supported by MSNProtocol? Excuse me, did you *try* the MSN Official Client against Pidgin like I suggested you one month ago, or not? I did. That's the reason why I filed this ticket.
Pietro

comment:9 in reply to: ↑ 8 Changed 10 years ago by TehWan

Replying to Pietro:

Proper blocking cannot be only a status blocking because, *as I explained*, one has the chance to determine if one is online or not by sending a message. Please, re-read the ticket... could you still believe that status-only blocking could be intended as proper blocking?

Please, re-read my post... I do not believe that status-only blocking could be intended as proper blocking. I remember back with Windows Messenger, you had no way to know if someone blocked you or is simply offline, which was incredible. Nowadays, you can know when people are blocking you or not? What is that, a security flaw? But we're not here to discuss the MSN Protocol. Actually, there should be a way to block offline messages, which is what we receive when we block people.

Anyways, in reply to salinasv, I guess it could, thanks.

~ Teh Wan ~

comment:10 Changed 8 years ago by ins3

I also would like Pidgin to show me as offline and hide messages from people that I've blocked.

comment:11 Changed 6 years ago by someuser

Since I'm no pro, I'm not sure if these MSN-Blocking problems are connected (and some would therefore be duplicates) ... See tickets 3577, 8541, 9161, 9733.

comment:12 follow-up: Changed 6 years ago by cydon

I just tested blocking in MSN on pidgin version 2.7.11 for windows. The other person running the official microsoft client version could see me online and receive my messages but I did not receive any messages from him/her.

Also, even after deleting the contact the other person could still see me online and send me messages and I also could send messages as well.

Seriously now, I appreciate very much the effort open source developers put into programs with no compensation whatsoever but this has been ignored for 4 years. I have been waiting for this to be fixed for 3. The only reason I was not impatient is that I very rarely use the block function. So, the question is this. Are you ever going to fix this or will I have to (regrettably) change my client?

To hell with winks, handwritten messages and voice clips. We are talking about basic functionality here that creates huge privacy problems when its not implemented and you only find out when you test it. Are you serious about creating a client for the MSN as well or not?

comment:13 Changed 6 years ago by salinasv

Ticket #9161 has been marked as a duplicate of this ticket.

comment:14 in reply to: ↑ 12 Changed 6 years ago by salinasv

Replying to cydon:

I just tested blocking in MSN on pidgin version 2.7.11 for windows. The other person running the official microsoft client version could see me online and receive my messages but I did not receive any messages from him/her.

If your buddy can see you online, then that problem is different from this one. Take a look at open tickets, if you don't find anyone with the same problema, file a new ticket.

Also, even after deleting the contact the other person could still see me online and send me messages and I also could send messages as well.

Deleting a contact in MSN never had anything to do with the fact that he can see you online or not. Deleting just means that you don't want to see the buddy in your buddy list.

Seriously now, I appreciate very much the effort open source developers put into programs with no compensation whatsoever but this has been ignored for 4 years. I have been waiting for this to be fixed for 3. The only reason I was not impatient is that I very rarely use the block function. So, the question is this. Are you ever going to fix this or will I have to (regrettably) change my client?

If you have followed this ticket, there was a suggested solution (write a plugin that discard messages from a blacklist). Sending back a "user is offline" when blocked and allowing Offline Messages when it is not seems like a broken privacy policy to me since it get easy to know when someone blocked you.

To hell with winks, handwritten messages and voice clips. We are talking about basic functionality here that creates huge privacy problems when its not implemented and you only find out when you test it. Are you serious about creating a client for the MSN as well or not?

As you may know, MSN is not an open protocol, there is too little and not always 100% accurate documentation extracted by people in their free time by back engineering the protocol. Features get implemented as they are known how they works (and when people have time to code it).

Sure there are priorities, but there are also closed-protocol related issues.

comment:15 Changed 6 years ago by salinasv

  • Milestone set to Plugin Suggested

Discarding messages form a blacklist can be done in a plugin.

If you prefer a privacy option, "Patches welcome".

comment:16 Changed 4 months ago by dx

  • Milestone Plugin Suggested deleted

comment:17 Changed 4 months ago by dx

  • Resolution set to out of date
  • Status changed from new to closed

Closing all MSN tickets, since it has been removed in pidgin 2.12.0 after being broken for a couple of years (see http://ismsndeadyet.com/). The skypeweb plugin can be used as an alternative (yes, it supports MSN logins too)

If this issue is still present in any other protocols supported by pidgin, please leave a comment and we will reopen it.

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