Opened 7 years ago

Last modified 5 months ago

#8323 new defect

Log finds latest instance first

Reported by: endolith Owned by: rlaager
Milestone: Patches welcome Component: logging
Version: 2.5.2 Keywords:
Cc:

Description

When viewing logs and searching for text, the first result shown is the last instance in a conversation.

Pushing Find button or Enter cycles through the results in reverse chronological order. Should start at the top and go down in chronological order like any other app.

Change History (14)

comment:1 Changed 7 years ago by datallah

  • Status changed from new to pending

I don't think there is a particularly good argument for changing the way this works - it seems to me that you're more likely to be be looking for the most recent occurrence rather than the oldest.

comment:2 Changed 7 years ago by endolith

  • Status changed from pending to new

Why would you ever want to find the last occurrence first?

You want to find the most recent conversation that the search term appears in, but within that conversation you want to find the first occurrence of the word and then progress through the conversation chronologically. (Unless you're Leonard Shelby, I guess...)

Also, the match should be shown centered in the window, not at the very the top, so you can read it in context.

comment:3 Changed 7 years ago by deryni

I agree that we would be better served by not pegging the match to the top of the window. I am less concerned about and convinced by the arguments regarding which match we should find first, though.

comment:4 Changed 7 years ago by endolith

Is there any good reason why it should return the last search result first? Every time I do a search with multiple results, I have to push the button multiple times to get it to seek back to the first result.

comment:5 follow-up: Changed 7 years ago by deryni

I don't know if there is a reason for either case over the other, and without knowing that I believe there is a very good reason not to change the current behaviour (people will have gotten used to the current behaviour whether they like it or not and breaking that habituation when we don't know that the change will be for the better is something I would rather avoid).

comment:6 in reply to: ↑ 5 Changed 7 years ago by endolith

Reasons for returning the first result first:

  • It is jarring to return the last result first, with the user not knowing the context of the conversation up until that point
  • It is familiar, since it's the behavior used in every other piece of software on the planet

Is there any good reason why it should return the last search result first?

Users will indeed habituate to bad functionality (as I have by pushing the search button repeatedly). It does not follow that bad functionality should remain unfixed indefinitely. If it did, all usability bugs would be marked "WONTFIX" as a matter of course.

comment:7 follow-up: Changed 7 years ago by deryni

You claim it is jarring, I've never been 'jarred' by it. I have been annoyed by the default placement in the window, however.

Context only matters when context is needed, which isn't something we can assume. I have quite often used the search to find a URL and have no need of the context before being given the URL for the URL to be useful (and finding the first match might actually have hurt me if the url contained a word used during the conversation).

I never said it wasn't familiar to find the first occurance.

Yes, users will habituate to lots of things. My claim is that despite your repeated claim that context is vital I have no proof that either behaviour makes intrinsically more sense than the other and no proof that the benefit to switching is anywhere near strong enough to warrant breaking everyone's habituation to the current system (which has been in place for as long as I know).

So the issue here isn't that a usbiility bug is being marked 'wontfix' but rather that I'm uncertain this even is a 'bug' as much as a 'quirky' default. The fact that to date I can't recall anyone else complaining about this is indicative of the fact that of the small set of people who actually use the pidgin log viewer none has so far been motivated enough to file a ticket/send an email/etc. about this (if they actually see this as an issue in the first place).

comment:8 in reply to: ↑ 7 Changed 7 years ago by endolith

Replying to deryni:

You claim it is jarring, I've never been 'jarred' by it. I have been annoyed by the default placement in the window, however.

Right. When you search for something, the first result is at the end of the conversation that you are searching. In any other program, this would mean that there was only one result, so you click the next conversation and look for matches there. In actuality, there may have been more than one match in that conversation, but it's really searching through the conversation backwards, and further results will be found further up the conversation instead of down. It's the opposite of the way search works in every other program, making the output misleading and confusing the user when they know that something's there but can't find it.

and no proof that the benefit to switching is anywhere near strong enough to warrant breaking everyone's habituation to the current system (which has been in place for as long as I know).

But the habituation only exists because of the bug! People wouldn't need to habituate to it if it worked properly. This line of reasoning is really boggling. We shouldn't fix things because people have gotten used to them being broken?

The fact that to date I can't recall anyone else complaining about this is indicative of the fact that of the small set of people who actually use the pidgin log viewer none has so far been motivated enough to file a ticket/send an email/etc. about this (if they actually see this as an issue in the first place).

I've noticed this since I first started using Gaim, and assumed it was such an obvious bug that it would be fixed with the next release. After many releases with no fix, I decided to check on it and didn't find an existing report. Am I the only person who uses the search button?

comment:9 Changed 7 years ago by QuLogic

  • Owner changed from lschiere to rekkanoryo

comment:10 Changed 7 years ago by bernmeister

Given deryni's reasoning, should this be closed off?

comment:11 Changed 7 years ago by endolith

This is still a problem in Pidgin 2.5.8, shouldn't be closed yet

comment:12 Changed 7 years ago by deryni

  • Milestone set to Patches welcome

In contrast to the strength of my previous comment I do believe "casual" usage of the Find feature would be helped by this change, and as such would be rather likely accept a patch which implemented it. As such I am moving this to Patches Welcome. Thanks to bernmeister for prodding me about it.

comment:13 Changed 3 years ago by rekkanoryo

  • Owner changed from rekkanoryo to EionRobb

comment:14 Changed 5 months ago by dx

  • Component changed from unclassified to logging
  • Owner changed from EionRobb to rlaager
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